Arguing By Quotes: Check Them!

Something not uncommon in the Internet is what I term "arguing by quotes." This is when, in the service of an argument, you pull up a quote from someone.


Obviously, there is nothing wrong with doing this! If you want to argue that George Washington had an opinion on something, a quote from him is a great way to do it. The problem is the frequency with which quotes can be thrown around that aren't verified as accurate.


Here's an example of such a case. Consider this quote attributed to St. Alphonse (or Alphonsus):

“How thankful we ought to be to Jesus Christ for the gift of faith! What would have become of us if we had been born in Asia, Africa, America, or in the midst of heretics and schismatics? He who does not believe is lost. This, then, was the first and greatest grace bestowed on us: our calling to the true faith. O Saviour of the world, what would have become of us if Thou hadst not enlightened us? … We would all have perished.”


I've also seen it posted in this form:

"What would have become of us if we had been born in Asia, Africa, America, or in the midst of heretics and schismatics? He who does not believe is lost. . . . We would have been like our fathers of old, who adored animals and blocks of stone and wood; and thus we all would have perished!"


These are generally used in the service of arguing that he had the viewpoint that those who had no opportunity to hear the gospel are inherently lost. Perhaps he did--but does the above quote show that? In both forms, they are attributed to his book "Preparation for Death." The problem is that this quote is not, as far as I can tell, found in the book (if you wish to verify, examine the book here, you may need to scroll down for the English links).


This quote rather appears to come from a different work of his entirely, a meditation for January 1 which can be found here; it does not cite specifically where it is from, but it seems to be from page 256 of volume 4 of "The incarnation, birth, and infancy of Jesus Christ" which can be found here. While part of the above quotes can be found, their post-ellipses portions are nowhere to be found. So let's see what the actual quote is:


"How thankful ought we not, then, to be to Jesus Christ for the gift of faith! And what would have become of us if we had been born in Asia, in Africa, in America, or in the midst of heretics and schismatics? He who believes not is lost: He that believeth not shall be condemned. And thus probably we also should have been lost."


The wording differs slightly but this is presumably the result of a different translation. As we can see, however, we have the phrase "probably we also should have been lost." This specific quote indicates the view that such people have the possibility (though not apparently the probability) of being saved.


This is a demonstration of the importance of checking quotes. In this case, the quote was not only not where it was supposed to be, but when found, it said something different than what was claimed.


Indeed, all of this applies to indirect quotes as well. Here is an example. It is often alleged that Akira Toriyama (the author of the famous Dragon Ball series) was forced to keep the series going past the Freiza arc against his wishes due to its popularity. What is not stated in the many claims of such is where he said such a thing. This site goes into some details in debunking this idea:
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/intended-end/


So whenever you see a quote that seems possibly iffy, look to see where it comes from. If no source is offered at all, that is a red flag that the quote isn't real, especially if you attempt to search online for the quote only to find further source-less citations. If a source is given, look the source up to verify this was actually said. Even obscure sources can often be found with the aid of places like archive.org. This will also allow you to look at the context in order to determine whether it is being taken out of context or not. This applies not only to the reader, but also to the writer. If you are planning to use a quote in an "argument by quotation," verify that the quote (whether direct or indirect) is correct before using it. Don't perpetuate false or misleading quotes.


The First Post

This blog exists basically as a way for me to be able to get some stuff off my chest. Sometimes I see things on forums from long ago I want to make some comment on, but I can't due to it being so long ago. I don't know how many people will actually read any of this, but I want to put them somewhere. These will probably be of a variety of things, some more serious (religion or politics) and some more silly (thoughts on things like Star Wars).

Not the most interesting first post, but who knows where this blog will go?